Present: Dr Martyn Stenning (Chairman – Lime Aid)
Andrew Ledward (Treasurer – Lime Aid)
Mike Benians (Secretary – Lime Aid)
Fay Barnacle, Queens Approach
Roy Barnacle, Queens Approach
Marjorie Brooks, Downsview Crescent
Jeffrey Brooks, Downsview Crescent
Richard Cranfield, High Street
James Daly, K & S Courier
Peter Fordham, Oak Tree Court
Jerry Gunn, Assistant Head, UCTC
Desmond Gunner, International Tree Foundation
Barry Knights, Uckfield Regeneration Partnership
Phil Lancaster, NiteSafe
Andrew Seaton, Development Planning, Children’s Services, ESCC
Cllr Dorothy Sparks, Uckfield Town Council
Cllr Paul Sparks, Wealden DC & ESCC
Vivien Stenning, Selby Rise
Dr Eleni Stephenson Clarke, Sussex Gardens Trust
Betty Turner, Lawrence House
Mike Upton, NiteSafe
Cathy Watson, Cathy Watson Associates (Minutes)

Apologies: Robin Chandler, Peter Taylor Associates
George and Bernice Dade, Bedford Place
Cllr Claire Dowling, Wealden DC
Chris Fuller, Clayhill Nurseries
Charles Hendry, MP Wealden
Simon Hickmott, Environment, ESCC
Guy Hollander, Deloitte, London
Chris Lawson, Lawson Commercial
Jill and Ron Miles, 3 Downsview Crescent
Cllr Jim Molesworth-Edwards, Uckfield Town Council
Terry and Janice Morford, 6 Lime Close
Richard Thorne, C.J. Thorne
Francis Wallace, Rix and Kay Solicitors
Richard Webber, Landscapes, WDC
John and Iris Wright, Hempstead Road


1. Brainstorming
Mike Benians led a walk northwards along Lime Tree Avenue pointing out where land being administered by Receivers Deloitte, on behalf of Federated Homes Ltd., ended. (Ca. 200 metres from Hempstead Road). Also where ESCC ‘Repair & Maintenance’ responsibility for the LTA carriageway ended. (Ca. 325 metres from Hempstead Road).

2. Welcome by chairman
At the start of the formal meeting Martyn Stenning welcomed those attending and invited Andrew Seaton of East Sussex County Council’s Children’s Services to address the meeting.

3. Ownership of the avenue
Mr Seaton said that on the basis of legal advice he had been given, the County Council was responsible for maintaining the hard surface of Lime Tree Avenue to a width of 11 feet. What wasn’t clear was the Council’s liability for looking after the lime trees.

The County Council and the College had undertaken pollarding work on all the lime trees on the College side of the avenue because legal advice indicated the County Council had a duty of care to the people using the avenue, particularly those going to the College and the Leisure Centre and using the car park. The work was undertaken at significant cost to ratepayers and taxpayers, money which would otherwise have been spent on something else.

Mr Seaton said Deloitte had told him they were not in a position to do any work on trees because they didn’t have the money. That, he said, was the root of the problem. ‘If any of us had the money there would be an easy result,’ he said. He hoped by working together the group would come up with a way of maintaining and making the trees safe.

Dr Stenning said part of the solution had happened. The majority of trees had been pruned and that was something to be grateful for. Money had been raised towards the activities of the group and maintenance of the trees and the value of work done by volunteers, including members of the Kings Church, must run into many thousands of pounds.

But there was still work to be done with concerns about the carriageway surface and illumination for the winter.

Mr Benians said resurfacing work had been carried out previously by ESCC on the bottom 30 metres of the avenue.

Dr Stenning said he would like to see a five year management plan for the avenue drawn up. Most of the pruning had been done and the rest could be mopped up with the help of some fund-raising and through talking to the appropriate owners but the surface and illumination also needed to be addressed.

Mr Seaton said he hadn’t realised surface maintenance and lighting were to be discussed and he would need to talk to colleagues because that type of work came from a different County Council budget. He was more optimistic about the possibility of the Council being able to help there.

Mr Benians asked why the avenue couldn’t be maintained under the road maintenance budget since it was a Public Right of Way. But Mr Seaton said liability was defined in the 1948 conveyance document, as relating to the Education Authority rather than Highways.

Desmond Gunner said you could see that the trees had been neglected for the last 20 years and were greatly overgrown. He said it was ‘reprehensible’ they had been left for so long. Pruning needed to be done at least every ten years but some work needed to be done annually.

Mr Gunner said he was impressed with what had been achieved by Lime Aid but was concerned that the general attitude seemed to be that the avenue was a liability when it should be regarded as a public asset. It was a marvellous avenue and should be looked after.

Dr Stenning said the majority of people in the town who knew the avenue felt that way. Everybody at the meeting was a volunteer. Lime Aid was a movement that had evolved out of concern for the avenue.

Dr Stenning introduced Phil Lancaster, inviting him to talk about the luminous discs he had invented and which he was offering to install, free of charge for trials, in the kerb-stones along part of the avenue. They were a little bit like ‘cats eyes’ that would glow in the dark.

Mr Lancaster said the discs would shine all night, as brightly as autumn moonlight, without the aid of batteries or electricity. The material they were made of did all the work, being charged up in daylight and then shining through the night. The discs were designed to be ‘vandal resistant’.

Mr Benians said Deloitte had given permission for the ‘cats eyes’ to be installed on the section they controlled and Mr Seaton said he could see no reason for any objection from the County Council.

4. Funding

Mr Benians had hoped Deloitte would have advised their terms/costs, in time for the meeting, for the purchase of LTA south but an e-mail confirmed that the work was due to be done next week.

Dr Stenning told how he had been involved in a successful bid for a grant for work at the West Park Nature Reserve in Uckfield and it might be possible for Lime Aid to apply, as a group, for funding as long as the owners had no objection to the way the group wanted to spend the money.

Mr Seaton said that might be a way of solving the funding problem – he had thought groups seeking grants needed to have ownership or control of land. The County could seek legal advice, free of charge, on behalf of the group to see if that was possible.

He stressed the Children’s Service did not have any money at all to acquire land for any purpose and he was not sure they would be happy about acquiring a piece of land involving a significant liability.

Dr Stenning said the County might face very little more liability under those circumstances than they did now.

Mr Seaton said education must be the County’s top priority and it was having difficulty in maintaining the premises they already owned.

Mr Gunner asked whether money raised by the County selling land could be used for purchasing other land.

Cllr Paul Sparks said the County was having difficulty finding the money to do essential things. East Sussex residents were already paying a high Council Tax and there was a limit to how much they could be asked to pay. He said there were greater needs within the County for money raised through land sales and there was no point raising expectations that the County Council would take over ownership of a piece of land that would create greater liabilities for them.

But Dr Stenning said it was appropriate that the avenue came under the management of a public body. Very few places were so heavily used by the general public yet remained in multiple private ownership. It was an anomaly that needed sorting out and it was right that the voluntary group put pressure on public services to try and resolve the problem.
“Mike and I are willing to help raise money for this to help out any owners or local authority which needs to do this work,” he said.
He added there might be money available from the Heritage Lottery Fund because Lime Tree Avenue was a heritage feature visible from across Uckfield.

Dr Stenning mentioned the possibility of the County Council considering acquisition of the land to form part of a capital project but Mr Seaton ruled that out saying they were struggling to maintain the premises they had already.

He reiterated that the County and UCTC were supportive of an idea to create a ‘Linear Park’ by integrating the College Arboretum with LTA south but further discussion would be needed.

Jerry Gunn from UCTC was not so sure about other ideas involving horticultural land at the College. That area was still used for teaching purposes.

Town Councillor Dorothy Sparks suggested setting up a trust to acquire the Deloitte land. One had been set up to manage the Millennium Green, at Ridgewood.

She said the trust could take on all the liability but it would be able to apply for grants to support its work. Insurance would have to be taken out to cover liability and funds raised to cover the cost of transfer of the land.

Eleni Stephenson Clarke from the Sussex Gardens Trust said a five-year management plan would be very important if a grant was to be awarded by the Sussex Gardens Trust and becoming a trust would probably make it a lot easier to apply for a Lottery grant or funds from English Heritage and Sussex Gardens Trust.

She said it would also be important to identify the variety of lime tree and suggested that efforts should be made to propagate them so that identical new trees could be planted in the future.

Mr Gunn said the College would be willing to try to do that but they needed to find out how best to do it.

Eleni also suggested enlisting help from the BTCV volunteer group and suggested it would be helpful to have a sign directing people to the avenue.

Dr Stenning said he would ask Uckfield Town Council how much a brown sign might cost.

Jeffrey Brooks, of 6 Downsview Crescent, said thank you for the pollarding work carried out on trees along his part of Lime Tree Avenue but added that the contractors had left branches lying about and they damaged his fence with nearly every panel broken and now children were jumping across his garden instead of using the school entrance.

Mr Seaton said he would investigate that.

Mr Brooks also said the deeds for his property showed that all the houses built during the first stage of development of Manor Park shared responsibility for maintenance of part of Lime Tree Avenue but other people said that wasn’t on their deeds. He said that involved hundreds of houses but when he previously wanted to share out a bill of £8,000, charging each of the householders £20, nobody wanted to contribute.

Dr Stenning said this information needed to be brought into the public domain and asked Mr Brooks to bring his documents to the next Lime Aid meeting.

Eleni from the Sussex Gardens Trust suggested Plumpton College might be able to help with pruning the lime trees and English Woodlands might be able to help with propagation.

Dr Stenning said another fund-raising idea worth considering was asking local companies to ‘adopt a tree’.

He then listed action points to include drawing up a five year management plan, investigating formation of a trust, determining the species of tree in the avenue, propagation of the trees, contacting BTCV, Plumpton College and English Woodlands, developing the LTA website, raising the profile of the avenue on the Uckfield web site and trying to get brown signs to direct people to the avenue.

The meeting closed at 8.12 pm. The next meeting, the AGM, is due to take place (subject to UCTC) at 7.30 pm on Thursday 20th September 2007.